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Post by Elle Rush on Jan 4, 2008 15:03:59 GMT -5
The following discussion began in Dan (aquariunM) poetry thread in free-verse forum. It grew into a real discussion about some major issues facing the country of the United States and the perilous times we are now in. Let's have an open and honest discussion about this! __________________________________________ Oh, FOR REAL!!!! That is THE SECRET that the govt. doesn't want anyone to figure out!! They make slaves of us through DEBT!!!!!!! Absolutely Right-ON!!!! This is a subject I've been thinking alot on myself lately. Well-done. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- U know what else? Judging by how little coverage was given to vital candidates like Dennis Kucinich & Ron Paul & even John Edwards! in the Iowa caucases & primaries last night, I think the media is IN on the conspiracy! They showed campaign headquarters speeches from both Hillary & Obama & Huckabee & Mitt Romney, but not Edwards, Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich? Edwards beat Clinton & they still didn't give him any air time?! Ron Paul did very well, esp. amongst independents & got no air time, DK I am not sure how he did but I sure didn't see anything about him on any news coverage. Seems like the candidates that aren't about big business or world order get nothing from the media? I know it's another subject, but it is ALL RELATED! I believe DK & John Edwards would make a VERY awesome ticket!! I wish 2 candidates like that could pull their resources & make it happen FOR THE PEOPLE!!! FOR THIS COUNTRY!! I am SO DISILLUSIONED! It's like a play that has already been written, a performance to make it look like we have a say.. but when it's all said & done.. the media and the govt. (& LOBBYIST!!!) have it all in the bag, it seems. A tangent, I'm sorry... I wanted to talk to you about all of this last night, as I know you are very involved & informed. It is all related to the FED. & how loans are given, how govt. spends $ & how every dollar printed by the reserve binds us to their rule of law becuz every dollar printed means we GO FURTHER INTO DEBT!! I know that debt=slavery! I wish the citizens of this country would wake up and see how all of this is VERY MUCH connected. Sorry for writing a book here in your poignant poetry thread, Dan.. I am so disgusted right now its just driving me mad! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to the club of the awake and aware, 'Elle. The media are definitely involved. In 1970, there were 50 media corporations in competition. Now there are 5 thanks to rewritten ownership rules under an FCC guided by mostly republicans for years. Far, far too much consolidation, the corporations own the media and control the message completely. Only on the internet do you hear anything they don'twant you to hear about. Now add computerized voting machines to the mix. Check out www.bradblog.com om that stuff - he has the best site around on fair elections issues. In the past eight months, California, Ohio, and Colorado have all commissioned massive testing and studies by both academic and commercial computer experts, three separate studies of all the machines out there. Every single one was found to be so utterl.y hackable and easy to mess with, that they were almost completely decertified for us in all three states. The Colorado official in charge is a republican. Guess what? He let the damn Diebold machines stay. Ohio is actually mandating that every voter be given the option of voting on paper. Do you know what the definition of fascism is? It is when corporations run the government. Remember what they called Nazi Germany? Fascist. Did you know that George Bush's grandfather Prescott was in trouble for doing business with the Nazis during WWII? I wish all you gals would get deep into this, it is hard for us guys to talk about it in a mixed setting, because most wives & GF's hate their men talking politics - but it drastically needs to happen!!! NOW. I don't care if it's Republicans or Democrats anymore - Packers/Bears, it's all the damn NFL. Can you say dog & pony three times fast? Dan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am trying, Dan! For SURE & I intend on being VERY involved, even if the outcome is not to my liking... at least I can know in my heart that I did my best to use this brain God gave me & to be INFORMED & also to share what I find with my own friends & family. The more I learn, the more scared I get! Yes, I was aware of the consolidation of media.. it has it's own effects on music that I have been aware for a long time.. my Father & I JUST had this discussion this morning! I did NOT know about GW's grandfather, but I am certainly not surprised based on all of the other underhanded dealings in oil with the Saudi's & others that family has been involved with. I am with you, also in the term fascists... omg, my friend & guitar player & I have discussions along the same lines... our govt. is controlled by special interests that have NOTHING to do with Americans interests, even working to destroy middle class & make us all slaves to their ideas and products by using money to control our govt!! It's a viscious cycle that HAS GOT TO END or it will be the end of any sense of freedom. They have already redefined the word freedom, in my opinion with their laws that control individual rights to choose... TONS of laws that have no business telling us what to do!!! I believe in wearing seatbelts, I believe smoking is bad for your health, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, I BELIEVE THAT IT IS NOT THE GOVTS. PLACE TO TELL US WHAT WE CAN AND CANNOT DO!!!!!!! I am so upset. SO PISSED OFF, really more that not only are they doinmg it, but so many people don't seem to care at all what is going on right under our noses. I know this is a really long discussion, maybe we should take it into the cafe' I have so much more to say. I have been reading about new world order, and that every candidate subscribes to some kind of organization that believes in NWO.. the only one that I can tell so far that doesn't is Ron Paul, which is the only reason he is still on my list of potentials. We can talk more.. I want to, I need all the good infoprmation I can get. I WILL USE the talents I have been given to further the cause of knowledge= power!!!!
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Post by AquarianM on Jan 5, 2008 4:41:05 GMT -5
'Elle - there's never been a time where it was more important for ordinary Americans to have an open conversation on the political situation in this country. If the vast majority of the country doesn't get involved and quick, we may see the permanent end of the "middle class" in our lifetimes, and the irreversible loss of precious freedoms. Already, habeus corpus, the right to contest one's detention in a court of law that has existed since the signing of the Magna Carta has been gutted in this country. The MEDIA will tell you that this applies only to foreigners. A close reading of the Military Commissions Act will show that is easily applied to US Citizens as well. All the President's men have to do is point at you and say "You're an Unlawful Enemy Combatant" and they can dissappear anyone, not even telling your family where you went. They can now spy on anything you say or do via the Patriot Act and without any kind of search warrant or court oversight at all. In the previous issue of Popular Science, it was reported that a new type of video game will be released for home use in 2008 or early 2009. The game controllers won't have buttons to push, oh, no. It will have a headband, and you will control the game just by thinking what you want it to do. Think about that - a video game that detects your intentions. Your thoughts. It is NOT science fiction any longer. There was an article just last month in a British online newswire about how scientists in the US & UK are learning to literally read thoughts by using headsets that pick up the electrical impulses of the brain. Just in the past few months, a law, a US Federal law, was passed making "having a radical belief system" an act of punishable terrorism. They can punish you now for what you BELIEVE. How long will it be before those millions of video game headsets feed their data back into government supercomputers so that they have all the raw data they need to read your thoughts and then put you in jail or worse for them? Now try not to think of an angry elephant stomping on a President who authorised sending your husband or brother or father or mother or daughter off to some foreign war to get killed, while the President's family makes billions off the defense contracts. Don't believe me? Here are the relevant articles: BBC NEWS | Health | 'Thoughts read' via brain scans news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4715327.stmBBC NEWS | Health | Paralysed man's mind is 'read' news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7094526.stmThe brain scan that can read people's intentions | Science | The ... www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/feb/09/neuroscience.ethicsofscienceUniversity of Leicester - Penny For Your Thoughts! www2.le.ac.uk/ebulletin/news/press-releases/2000-2009/2007/12/nparticle.2007-12-06.2757300157----------------------------------- Brain Invaders: Epilelptic Teenager Plays Video Game with Thoughts ... www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/science_news/4199639.htmlBionic Made Better Engineers develop a mind-controlled prosthetic arm dexterous enough to play piano www.popsci.com/popsci/technology/5dfc3bd0efe84110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.htmlEEG Game Controllers The Nintendo Wii has gotten gamers moving about with its motion-sensitive controllers, but the next generation of game control device may require no movement at all. Video games that can read your mind will invade living rooms in 2008, thanks to electroencephalography (EEG) controllers that detect the electrical activity of the brain. Scientists have been working on the basic concept for several years, developing experimental brain implants that allow paralyzed patients to check their e-mail and move their wheelchair by thinking about it. But the new wave of EEG devices make the transition from medical device to consumer gadget, involving simple headsets that slip on with an array of electrodes to measure brain activity. Already, Japanese researchers have demonstrated a prototype system that allows users to move their avatars around the virtual world of Second Life with only the power of their thoughts. The system is aimed at providing new opportunities to patients with severe paralysis. Some companies are using the consumer gaming market as a launchpad—hoping to make enough money to develop medical devices later, they say. Emotiv Systems promises its headset will detect facial expression, emotion (for instance, you might need to remain calm to stay undetected in a stealth game), as well as Jedi-style thoughts such as an intent to levitate things out of a swamp hands-free. Another company, NeuroSky, is creating its own biosensor technology for gaming. Whichever company wins, the force will be with us. www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4236607.html-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- House Passes Thought Crime Prevention BillThe definition of violent radicalization uses vague language to define this term of promoting any belief system that the government considers to be an ... www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=4682'Thought Crimes,' HR 1955 Passed With 404 Votes by Jeff Knaebel"(2) VIOLENT RADICALIZATION- The term `violent radicalization’ means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system… to advance political, ... www.lewrockwell.com/knaebel/knaebel11.htmlThe Violent Radicalization Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007"An 'extremist belief system' can be whatever anyone on the commission says ... of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism in the United States," on ... www.truthout.org/docs_2006/112907J.shtmlRate this ballot.What is an extremist belief system?: rate this ...Further it states "The term `violent radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ... www.bestandworst.com/rate/ballot.php?id=119568WE MUST STOP- S. 1959 --"Violent Radicalization and Homegrown ..."violent radicalization," which the bill defines as "the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ... www.binaryfreedom.info/node/267--------------------------------------------------- Yep, stop trying to think of that elephant.... By the way, have you been OFF camera lately? Surveillance Society: New High-Tech Cameras Are Watching You In the era of computer-controlled surveillance, your every move could be captured by cameras, whether you're shopping in the grocery store or driving on the freeway. Proponents say it will keep us safe, but at what cost? www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/4236865.html
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Post by AquarianM on Jan 5, 2008 4:52:08 GMT -5
Now, consider sub-dermal chips the size of rice grains that can track pets or people with radio-frequency identification (RFID) from ten yards or so away. That has been real technology for several years now - they're already chipping patients in some hospitals so as not to lose them or their records. Also, the Real ID Act - which was slipped in to a funding bill for the Iraq war & Afghanistan, buried hundreds of pages in. It calls for RFID chips in passports and drivers licenses nation-wide by 2009. You'll have to have such an ID to get into federal buildings, courthouses, banks, libraries, etc by federal law. Oh, by the way, those RFID chips in your passport, drivers license, or butt cheek will contain highly personal data, including address, phone, birthdate, social security number. How about it, ID thieves? Want a Palm pilot that can read all your stuff from 30 feet away without you even knowing it? Now, I could go out and google the articles on the chips and Real ID and such for you, but you get the point. Forget the tinfoil hat - get a tinfoil wallet and underpants! It's really funny - but also really for real. Hmmm...personal; radio jamming for the incredulous. But no, our government is run by a kind and Christian man. One question - if Jesus were alive today, what would He be doing? Feeding the poor and healing the sick on the Southside, or bliowing up Iraq and waterboarding Muslims? Do you think He'd make new sustainable homes appear in New Orleans and Sumatra via a miracle or would He be sending earthquakes and asteroids to Tehran? Hmmm....shiny new aircraft carriers in New York harbor all loaded to go or warm rain and fields full of grain and fruit in Darfur? A massive new US oil field or millions of cars that run on air? ( Revolutionary new pollution-free car able to run on air: rawstory.com/news/2007/Air_car_runs_on_compressed_air_0104.html ) Burning gays and lesbians at the stake or sending blankets, food and housing to poor flooded Tobasco? Speaking of Tobasco, where was the US humanitarian response? The Mexican army sent all kinds of doctors up to help us after Katrina - but Tobasco floods and leaves several hundred thousand homeless, and there's nothing on the news and no help at all from the US? Yep, forget that elephant! Quick!
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Post by Elle Rush on Jan 5, 2008 10:27:23 GMT -5
The radio frequency chips scare me most! I have LONG been fearful of a worldwide ID system, I have been warned by my biblical scholar Grandmother, that this would be the mark of the beast and that these chips would be required to sell or purchase anything. Eventually, implanted at birth into every child born in the world! Those that didn't would have a difficult time surviving. It's all at a cost! A HIGH COST to us regular folks. So much at stake!!! The surveillence stuff scares me, too.. where is our privacy? Is that a revered thing at all anymore?? They have them al over in the UK, show them on closed circuit tv to their own citizens,even! So, you live on a corner brickstone. You can turn on the CC tv and see who is walking or driving on your street!! Crazy! But did they catch the Russian that poisoned the Russian freedom journalist in the UK last year? NO, they did not!! So, how good really is that technology if they use it against regular, law abiding citizens but those that know how (lol, the KGB, evidently) can get around that system? I've been following news out of Russia, as they are hyper-sensitive to the movements of the US right now. They have turned back into a communist state (I don't know if they ever had real democracy there, just as I don't think we have true democracy here right now) but they believe that the US will eventually go after their resources, as they hold 1/3 of the world's oil resources. and what is the deal with the Pakistani prime minister getting assassinated? It is my understanding that she was the only US sympathizer in that govt.?? If that is so, that says A LOT!! They DO have NUKES!! and why would we make ourselves so inseperable from China that we cannot sustain our own people in food and goods if trade was cut-off from them? That doesn't seem like smart policy!? Especially since THEY have a govt. that is NOT DEMOCRATIC?! But guess what??? THEY can smoke a cigarette FREELY there, ! My point being that they are communists, but yet they have some freedoms that we don't. That also speaks volumes to me about our own country. I bring up the smoking thing, obviously playing music I am in bars A LOT. Illinois no-smoking law took effect Jan 1 and it has hurt a lot of businesses badly already. Last night, one of my friends went outside to smoke and she said a policeman drove by and she was so scared, feeling like she was going to get arrested or something for smoking a cigarette!! That is just NOT AMERICAN. It is reminiscent of prohibition to me!!! It is NOT our govts. place to tell Americans what they should be doing with their own selves!!!!! People like Dr. Martin Luther King, John Lennon, JFK, Bob Marley and other freedom fighters would be all over this stuff!! Hmmmmm....... that gives me ideas of my own. How can we, as ordinary citizens inform and stop some of this madness?? I do not want my children to inherit a world with no freedom!! I just HAVE to DO something?!!!
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Post by AquarianM on Jan 5, 2008 10:28:34 GMT -5
Holy guacamole dip, Batman! I just read on Bradblog.com that New York Times Magazine this Sunday is giving a front-cover article on the damn e-voting machines.
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Post by AquarianM on Jan 5, 2008 10:38:06 GMT -5
'Elle - just read your comment - yes, there is full scale prohibition in the USA - just not against alcohol. It has led to a lot of the laws that invade American privacy prior to 9-11, and it has led to the largest number of and per-capita count of incarcerated indivuduals in the world. It has led to street gangs, drive-by shootings, and massive amounts of "black market" funding for intelligence agencies if the rumors have any truth. Not to mention a whole industry revolving around housing and feeding the prison population - which is also in some cases a source of basically slave labor. Just who exactly owns all those prison servicing companies, I wonder? 80% or so of the people in those prisons committed no violent crimes - they just did something that made them feel good at the time. Oh, wait, I forgot about the seizure of houses, cars, boats, etc for auction.
Just another reason they don't want you hearing from Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich - both of them would abolish current-day prohibition.
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Post by Elle Rush on Jan 5, 2008 10:44:25 GMT -5
Which is why they are 2 of the 3 ONLY candidates that have my RESPECT!!!!! I BELIEVE THAT 200%!!!!!! Where do all of those seized drugs, money, houses, cars, etc. go??? To our GOVT. that's where!? So, it's ILLEGAL for the owners of such things t have them, but A-OKAy for uncle Sam to profit from them?! Kind of like under-cover drug agents, eh? It's alright for them to join the party, buying, selling and using drugs but they can arrest the people they are doing it with? I am so seriously confused about how we got this far away from what I HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED this country stood for! I do not have the American pride I had as a child, saying the Pledge of Allegiance !!! When my children cannot even mention their religious beliefs at school or they get sent home with suspension!!!!!! ?? There is so many things that are so far removed from FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY that I don't even know where to begin!
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Post by AquarianM on Jan 5, 2008 11:13:34 GMT -5
It's really one simple thing that results in all these others: when the government is allowed to tell you what you can and can not do wioth your own life, you end up here or worse.
It is one thing when the government is allowed to stop you from abrogating the rights of others and impacting their lives, but when the government is allowed to impose the ethics and morals of the "majority" on everyone else as concerns how they live their own lives, you have this kind of thing as a result.
It is one thing if you want to say that someone else's lifestyle choices are wrong. It is completely another if you try to take away their freedom of choice.
According to the Bible, God gave mankind free will so they could make their own choices. A lot of so-called followers of the Bible do not respect that enough to allow the same.
The principle is supposed to be "your rights end where another's begin."
Your bars and night-clubs should be allowed to declare if they will be smoking or non-smoking, and clearly state that at the door. Non-smokers should have every right to open their own bars where smoking isn't allowed on the premises, and smokers should be allowed to open bars where it is.
Then there is the health care excuse - "it costs so much more in health care for smokers - and everyone is paying taxes on that." So for separate health plans for smokers and non-smokers and separate the medicare funding on the same criteria - if all those paying into the smokers' medicare fund are smokers, they are all choosing freely to be part of that - but, oh noooo, they have to create another exuse to fine people - which is often a consistent source of revenue for states and municipalities - they quantify a certain percentage of their annual budgets based on revenue from fines for various "offenses."
The funny thing is, you are right about one thing in particular, although you didn't say it this way: those who point fingersw the hardest usually have something they are trying to distract you from. Take a look into how many religious zealots wind up in trouble on drug and prostitution charges in the end. Ted Haggert is a great example - large congregation televangelist tells how we should tell everyone else what to do in their own lives, then gets totally byusted for soliciting crystal meth from a gay prostitute, and that's not all he was soliciting either.
If you want to live in a free democracy, you have to let everyone live their lives their own way and count all the votes. If you want to live in a religious theocracy, you'd better watch out if you're not just the right kind of Christian - or Muslim, ask the Afghanis who lived under the Taliban about religious theocracies. Because that is one of the tools that the corporate politicians are using to manipulate the emotions and fears of the religious among their constituents.
I'll tell you Christians now, neither George Bush nor any other Republican is ever going to totally abolish and do away with either gay marriage or abortions. They will always leave that door open a crack, and the Democrats will open it back up a bit, but not completely, then the Republicans will close it a bit again, but not completely. Hey, they might even switch - the Democrats might someday get "tough" on these things and the Republicans "loosen up" - then you'll have to switch sides - but you'll never have time to look past this at issues like globalization of trade or erosion of civil rights which most lefties and righties agree on, because you'll be too busy voting against the "baby killers" and gays. They are playing you against everyone else that looks at the other issues and using you as a foil against everyone else trying to save the middle class life in this country. The minute they really close those doors in the law, they won't have that wedge to drive between you and everyone else anymore. At least until they get a total police state run by the corporations - then they won't care what you or I want - which is almost done now.
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Post by Elle Rush on Jan 5, 2008 13:03:45 GMT -5
I believe AND FEAR we are already headed in the direction of police-ran state and country! Look at how controlled the media is! What is the difference between that and state-ran media? & yes, it IS the HYPOCRITS shoving their AGENDA down our throats and I cannot bear it any longer! I do not give credence to ANYONE that profits from Anyone elses sins, abonishments, breakings of law, etc.!!! I don't TRUST IT! TV Evangelists, other profitable organized religions or Uncle Sam, it's ALL the same damn thing!! HYPOCRITS!!
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Post by AquarianM on Jan 5, 2008 14:23:01 GMT -5
I want to state something clearly in this thread. Honest Christians who practice their faith with the kind of compassion and grace Christ taught I am in agreement with. I am of Christian belief myself, just maybe not the version most people are used to.
It is those who try to use religious beliefs to bully others, especially to cover their own evils and profits that I am against. I believe that religious faith has no place in being used in this manner, or to drive a wedge between people to avert the common good.
If you are a Christian who follows the teachings of Christ and not of angry men and women, then I call you brother and sister.
If you are an angry religious fanatic who uses religion to attack or coerce others, then I am praying to God will He please come down here and rapture your ass so the rest of us can live in peace and harmony.
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Post by Elle Rush on Jan 6, 2008 22:27:33 GMT -5
LOL! I had to chuckle at the last... & I quite agree!! I believe whole-heartedly in God, I know there are many awesome churches out there that aren't about Profiting or using Fear for their own purpose. I accept everyone's individual rights to practice whatever faith they choose in whatever manner they choose... it is those guys out there making money off of people that believe that I have a problem with. To me, some of those guys think they are above God in the sense that they feel an "entitlement" that is scary or an unreproachableness that is the opposite of what I believe. We are human beings, given free-will by God .. I don't believe that any other sinner has the pulp[it to shake their finger at me or anyone else that doesn't follow their particular religious regiment, often times a hypocritical view. My God is a forgiving God and accessible by me just fine without a go-between, and that is my own personal view about that. My gateway to the pearly gates has nothing to do with pentence paid or tithing money to an evangelist that has a corporate jet and a million dollar home. I am seeing how powerful this group is as far as American politics... and while it is righteous to want our country & our laws to reflect a moral conscience, I don't believe that by endorsing a candidate that holds a view in favor or aligned with one particular agenda (such as pro-life or same-sex marriage) some of the very candidates that hold these views are ones that are invading countries and offensively aggressive and hostile in their dealings with the rest of the world... you stated some of same above and I feel very similiar that although they claim to have a higher ground, in other areas they are quite the opposite.
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Post by AquarianM on Jan 10, 2008 19:52:32 GMT -5
Great, just great. The advance polls and exit polls are way off from the results in NH's primary, and ONLY in the Hillary/Obama race. I'm not for either of these candidates, but there is a whole raft of concerns about the counties that used Diebold machines, 80% of the NH voters, whereas the 20% of voters on hand-counted paper ballots matched all the polls. The Diebold machines use optical scanners to read paper ballots - but NH officials are so far refusing to hand count those ballots to verify the machines. See www.bradblog.com for all the gory details. These jerks are going to run another totally crooked selection.
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Post by AquarianM on Jan 11, 2008 2:55:15 GMT -5
Bradblog is now reporting that the Kucinich campaign, as a candidate, is calling for a recount of New Hampshire due to the irregularities between the Diebold precincts and the hand-counted paper precincts. www.bradblog.com/
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Post by Elle Rush on Jan 11, 2008 8:08:20 GMT -5
Dan, thank you for all of the links! I am going to them as I can! So, please leave them here for me and others to check out when we can. I've been coming in and going to 1 or 2 a day since you have posted them!
Also, I am so discouraged also about the NH primary... there were some red flags to me even, besides the diebold machines. There were reports that Clinton brought in voters from other counties? That they actually ran out of ballots becuase of this? Have you heard anything about that? Also, I had concerns... at the Iowa caucuses, the media seemed not to make a big deal about either Edwards or even Obama, not like they did Hilary in NH... they wanted obama to make a "concession" speech? WT hell is that about? It isn't THE election, it's a primary?! I was really confused about that, except to see clearly that the media puts their own spin on things. Also, the AP (& CNN!) reported that Hilary had won when only 60% of the votes had been counted. How is that possible??? To me, that was ALARMING!!! All I can say is that as awesome as it would be having the right woman in office, I myself do not believe that Hilary Clinton is the right woman. I think the Clinton's have far too much baggage to ever get anything done and their own agendas carried over from his presidency, as well... they have far too many lobbyists owed favors for my taste! Where does all of this leave us as Americans??
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Post by AquarianM on Jan 11, 2008 22:59:06 GMT -5
Where this leaves us is needing to move beyond our "team spirit" attitudes about politics to get together and ensure that the system is as fair and honest and transparent and verifiable as possible, regardless of who we support. Where this leads us is trying to educate the unaware so that we can get to that very necessary business of making this a democracy again instead of a corporate-controlled circus that is utterly staged.
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